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creative concrete solutions |
First shot at PT-1 |
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Did a reflector floor two weeks ago and I really like the product. It was installed in a future wine room. My question is everything went well but I have a couple spots that are still tacky. All the thickest of areas is rock hard but just left with a few sticky areas. Should I try heat with a torch? It's been two weeks since the installation. Another question I have is what are guys using for wax to keep that new floor shine once it ages? Thanks for any help.
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JBBS |
#1 | |||
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Rub the spots with Xylene then 2 coats of Protec-all.
www.bushwallandfloorsystems.blogspot.com
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creative concrete solutions |
#2 | |||
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Thanks, I will give it a shot! Post pictures once wine rack is installed. Any tips for waxing once cured??
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bassman45 |
#3 | |||
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I don't think you need to wax, if you're urethaning over the epoxy. Don't know if rubbing spots with eylene is your answer. Maybe for a week or so. I had epoxy nightmare earlier this year. Trying 3 x's , rep being there 3rd time. Epoxy failed all 3x's. Maybe the floor, maybe product, who knows. I got a bunch of grief on this site though, from the "experts", when I posted problems. I ended up polishing floor with good results. I'm liery about epoxy's, PAP's & so on
Last Edited By: bassman45 09/29/10 05:50 PM.
Edited 1 time.
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creative concrete solutions |
#4 | |||
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I did read your scenario and thought that I was going to have the same problem. I did a sample board from the same kit and it to is still tacky. When I did the first coat to just seal concrete it stayed somewhat tacky. The next day did the relflctor coat with gunmetal and copper color. That coat dried really fast, had to save it with speedy trowling. Later I noticed a thin spot in one corner where I did not get enough reflector so I could still feel the tacky first coat. Now I put another clear coat over top thinking it would do a perfect seal coat. Now it seems that coat has left me with my present patches of sticky areas. So this is where I'm at, will give it some time. I'm always interrested in others comments. What exactly do you mean when you say you polished floor bassman?
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Derrick |
#5 | |||
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Hi CCS! Just tried to send you a reply and something went wrong, so I will start over again. I have recently attended training on EC products and trying to get used to the products. However, I have been working with epoxies for the last twenty five years and would like to give you a few tips for the future jobs you do with epoxies. Make sure you always pre mix each container when you start at the mixing station. Make sure you have a separate mixing paddle for the A's and the B's Once all the premixing is done you can start with mixing your first mix using a dedicated mixing paddle for all mixing the A's and the B's. Keep paper towels handy to wipe off drips while working!! IMPORTANT AND MOST IMPORTANT OF ALL MAKE SURE YOU ALWAYS POUR THE PART B FIRST INTO THE MIXING PAIL AND THEN ADD THE PART A TO THE B!!! THIS WILL ENSURE YOU HAVE NO HOT SPOTS OR TACKY SPOTS OR UNCURED EPOXY !!!!!!!! If you have been mixing the B's into the A's and not consistent with your approach, it is only likely that you will have drips of the resin (A's) that could be on the sides of the container you are mixing in that will give you all the grief possible. When you pour your A's into the B's you have less likelyhood of such a problem occuring at all. The last point I would like to add is make sure you mix the A and B for at least three minutes using a slow speed mixer drill!!(400rpm) Hope this helps and is of some use in the future. |
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creative concrete solutions |
#6 | |||
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That is some good advice. I did premix both A and B before mixing together but I did add A to B and not the other way that you suggest. I will give this a try for sure. I don't remember my instructor saying anything like that but will give it a try. As for the lower speeds on the mixer and mixing for a good two to three minutes I did as well. It's the little tricks of the trade that help. Thanks again.
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Derrick |
#7 | |||
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If you say you did add the A to the B then you did it right!! Hope I am not confusing you. When all the pails are pre mixed, then you always add the A to the B! So if you are using a separate mixing pail for the final mix then you first pour your premixed B into this pail. Now add the A to the B! From all my past experience, it is recommended that the A and B first be mixed for two minutes and then you add the filler if you are mixing a mortar mix. So in this case with the reflector system, I would first try out a test by mixing the A into the B and then adding the reflector and mixing for another minute. That would end up with the mixing being for a total of 3 minutes. Just my humble suggestion!! Hope this helps! The whole idea in mixing the A in the B is to make sure you have the chemistry going. Now once the molecules have formed a matrix then you add your filler in the mix. You can add fillers to an epoxy with a binder to filler ratio of 4:1 for a resin rich mix, which is not what we are doing here. The filler is just the reflector and not any way close to the way you would load the epoxy with silica sand if you were mixing a mortar mix! Hope I have not confused you.
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Dr K |
#8 | |||
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i must b lucky?
i added the reflector to my part A the day before let set, remixed next day then mixed that with the resin hardner...part B Glamour-Krete Unique Cementious Flooring Concepts |
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creative concrete solutions |
#9 | |||
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I actually thought this through once again and remembeed that I did pour part B into part A. So I am soing this backwards. Funny though on my reflector finish I mixed B into A and mixed for 2 minutes. Then split the mixture into 2 containers, one for the copper and one for the gunmetal. Then copper went down first then added areas when the gunmetal. I noticed the copper pail was not curing as fast as the gunmetal pail and they both had one tablespoon of color, I actually almost lost the gunmetal mixture. That was the coat that dried really well. If i had not noticed a few light spots from the reflector coat I would have left it but instead decided to put that final clear coat on top. What I'd like to know is if it stays slightly tacky in only one or two small areas can I put Protect All on top? Maybe light sand, wipe then Protect All. We did not talk about Protect All on the course I took but it sounds like a good product, but I see most guys say you need to put it down within 24hrs of putting the epoxy down. Any ideas??
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Derrick |
#10 | |||
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Make it a golden rule to always put the A part into the B part when mixing epoxies from now on!!! Most often the product not curing is a result of improper mixing. To add to it any residual Part A sticking to the sides of your mixing pail adds to the grief of the product not curing! Cannot judge how much of an area you have that is tacky or are there spots when drops of the residual part A have resulted in soft or hot spots. If the problem is just tackyness then I guess you are lucky and could get away with application of the Protec-all single component waterbased Urethane. Depending on how bad the situation is screening the floor might not be possible, cause the screens will get gummy and you will have to go through a lot of screens to prep the floor. Most often epoxies have to be topcoated within the manufacturers recommended recoating interval mentioned on the data sheet. In most cases the recoating interval is in the range of 10 to 12 hours. Once you go past this window you have to sand the floor and vacuum before application of the topcoat to get a mechanical bond! If you coat within the recoating interval you get a good chemical bond between the epoxy and the topcoat. I guess you would have to solvent mop the floor to make sure you get a good bond with the epoxy if you are not able to sand or screen the floor due to the tacky spots. That will have to be your call. Application of the urethane topcoat with a short nap roller would be a good way to go making sure you apply your urethane topcoat really tight and thin. Urethanes have to be always applied thin (4 to 5 mils ) or you are going to add to your problems. If you apply at the rate of 500 to 600 Sq.Ft. per gallon or more, I guess you would be fine. Cause that would allow the urethane to cure faster. You could then check the areas where you had tacky spots and if the urethane is cured and dry you could apply a second coat after about 4 hours when it is touch dry. |
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creative concrete solutions |
#11 | |||
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Thanks again Derrick and your right about others giving some advise in this forum. I'm actually thinking on the same wave as you are and trying the Protect All over my floor. It's a area of 85sq ft and less than one third of it feels tacky. I was also thinking on maybe another coat of Pt-1 and mixing it your way and see if it will work, then Protect All as thin as possible. It dried very well at the thickest of spots leaving the slight tacky feel over the thin areas. I'm still playing on this floor since it's in my basement. I did a sample board about three weeks ago that feels hard but if you really push your fingers in it, it too feels tacky. So maybe I'll try the protect all on that board and see if it works out. I really love the looks of this stuff though and want to try more.
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Derrick |
#12 | |||
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Wow! That's a relief, knowing it is your basement and not a job you are doing for a customer. Anyways, based on your feedback, I guess it is a good idea to put down another coat of the Pt-1. You could easily do it with a gallon. The data sheet says it does around 70 to a 100 sq.ft. per gallon. So I would say it is a good idea to put down another coat. BTW it is not that you will be mixing my way, but like I said and explained, it is good practice to premix both parts, and then mix the part A into the B. Should you have any residual part b that is not mixed because of improper mixing, the likelyhood of a problem or tackyness is substantially reduced because the part B is the reactive agent and mixes and reacts with the resin that is the part A. So any minor concerns would be easily solved by wiping with Xylene should you need to. But wiping off any residual part A which is the resin component that is not mixed well is like asking for miracles! Do you see the difference???? Excuse my details..
So have fun and all has to go well!! |
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creative concrete solutions |
#13 | |||
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OK I'll give you another scenario, though the floor spoke about earlier is at my place we also did a test for a locale company looking for a very grippy floor in a plant where people were falling do to slippery floors. They presently have ceramic tile that is in good condition so we suggested a clear coat of epoxy then broadcast silica sand into it. They love the test I did on a ceramic tile so last weekend we did 150 sq.ft in a hallway. It's perfect but now they say it's very hard to clean. My partner went back and cleaned the floor to prove to them that it will take some elbow grease to clean since it has enormous traction. But he also noticed that it also has a slight stickness to it. So now I'm thinking to save this contract, a coat of Protect All over this floor once we wash it clean again should give it a harder finish and might help the guys you wash it on a regular basis. Any thoughts??
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Derrick |
#14 | |||
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Looks like your silica sand broadcast was not the right grit size. YOu ought to have gone with a finer grit to give them some texture and also made it clear that it would not be easy to clean. There is always a tradeoff when the customer wants an antislip finish. Was it really slippery? Did you use the PT-1 again for this? Was it just perception because the epoxy was glossy, that made them feel the floor was slippery. Most epoxies that are designed to go on floors have a slip factor that is good enough for traction, unless you have leather soled shoes. Anyways coming back to the point and not getting to technical, as far as the solution goes; it might be a good idea to screen the floor first with maybe a 100grit screens and then apply the protec-all in two coats. I guess the stickiness could be a result of inadequate mixing or improper mixing again. Proper mixing is of prime importance when working with epoxies and the person mixing has to have his head on his shoulders. He has to set up his mixing station and have good housekeepinng practice. ( Proper setup of the mixing station, pre-mixing all cans, paper towels, mixing paddles suited for the containers you are mixing in, etc etc) To conclude the protec-all should do the job if you properly screen, vacuum and follow good practice. Make it clear with the customer that his personnel have to have proper soled safety shoes and not soles that are bald and worn out. Any floor is slippery when wet and is a safety hazard if the right safety gear is not worn! It might also help to show a dry sample of the protec-all to let them have a feel for it and approve before you spend more time on the job. Just my thoughts...
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creative concrete solutions |
#15 | |||
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Actually that is the funny part of this particular job, it's a food plant and it is all the fat from the food that makes it very slippery. People are cracking heads and breaking wrists on this floor so I gave them a few samples and they liked the most agressive one. So that is what we gave them. Cleaned floor, put down epoxy, added silica sand on Saturday morning, Sunday morning I was walking on this floor and it was perfect. They loved it as well and got good feedback from employees. Only thing now is the cleaning crew hates it but we warned them of this. Now its Thursday and this is when we are noticing some tackiness but you can't scratch, peel or mark this job. It really did go well but that is why I'm asking if a good topcoat like Protect All would work, I can't see why it wouldn't.
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Derrick |
#16 | |||
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First of all protec all should work. Besides being a food facility, you should go with a waterbased urethane. I know of just one company that has a 100% solids urethane. With regard to the aggressive grit for traction, the urethane will not cover and if it does depending on the mesh size of the grit you have used, then the traction is lost and it will be easy to clean. So I guess you will be the best judge or make it clear to the customer.
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Derrick |
#17 | |||
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First of all protec all should work. Besides being a food facility, you should go with a waterbased urethane. I know of just one company that has a 100% solids urethane. With regard to the aggressive grit for traction, the urethane will not cover and if it does depending on the mesh size of the grit you have used, then the traction is lost and it will be easy to clean. So I guess you will be the best judge or make it clear to the customer.
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ecohio |
#18 | |||
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Just to double check, you are mixing TWO parts A to ONE Part B, and actually measuring not guessing. I have always found if an epoxy does not get hard there is some problem in the mixing. I do agree about the drips of un-mixed part A. I always tell my guys not turn the bucket upside down and set on the ground so every last drop of epoxy runs out. As far as the commercial kitchen, seal the epoxy with sand floor with either spartic-all or a real thin coat of pt-1. Just a few mills will leave the anti-slip but make the floor much easier to clean. |
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creative concrete solutions |
#19 | |||
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So why Spartic All instead of Protect All. Just wondering your logic since they say Protect All is ideal for Pt-1? And I always put two parts A to one part B mesured in mixing container, not just guessing.
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Derrick |
#20 | |||
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A word of caution here, maybe ecohio will add as well. But you might be safer going with the recommendations of PT1 instead because Spartic all is not listed on the FDA approved list. Unless they have had it approved later. So please check again before you make your choice.
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