BUbbles in uv-1 in INDUSTRIAL COATINGS FORUM Forum

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BUbbles in uv-1

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weldman	BUbbles in uv-1		Lead	[-]
Posts: 34 04/19/10 11:57 AM	Tags : None Any suggestion??? Applied e100 uv1 epoxy over chemstone on basement floor. Tons of bubble over entire floor. Rep said maybe applied too thin. Any feedback helpful. Any suggestions on fix????? Floor was nutralize,washed , rinsed,wash , rinsed,,,,mopped, mopped,,,,mopped. Floor sat three days before we applied sealer. Help....
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ECOV LLC		#1	[url]	[-]
Posts: 384 04/19/10 07:40 PM	Did you do any moisture testing on the floor before you started? You may have moisture vapor issues on this one. You can screen it off and recoat it which will help to cover and not see the bubbles but if there is moisture vapor the epoxy will blister. Tough spot. Dave Elite Crete of the Ohio Valley www.elitecreteohiovalley.com dave.sharamitaro@elitecrete.com I'm not a doctor. . . . . I just play one on concrete.
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EliteCreteMN		#2	[url]	[-]
Posts: 183 04/19/10 09:03 PM	Couple questions... More details the better. How was the epoxy mixed? How long? Mixer user? How was it applied? Rate? Tools used? Tempature in room? Temp of substrate? Elite Crete of Minnesota *Dan Ryan* 10740 Lyndale Ave Bloomington, MN 55420 952.270.5035 [o] 888.883.7115 [f] dan.ryan@elitecrete.com **dan.ryan44 on Skype
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briandeas		#3	[url]	[-]
Posts: 138 04/19/10 09:07 PM	I've been successful with sanding 220, or screening then coating with 3-4 coats of high solids floor finish. You have to make sure to sand your 220 marks if they are deep or the wax won't cut it. Worked for me. I got your message earlier but easier for me to just reply on here. Good luck
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weldman		#4	[url]	[-]
Posts: 35 04/20/10 09:07 AM	I didnt do a moisture test.. probly half the problem.....the basement was 65 -70 degrees.We mixed for 2- minutes then squeeged and back rolled. I did apply rather quick when squeege product. Was 450 sq feet. The product did turn white after rolling in many spots. Does this tell us anything?? I dont / didnt know the temp of floor. I did sand down a small area and reapplied small area, got same results,,,,,bubbles. Not as many though???? Tough spot i know. When you guys say screen what do you mean. Rent maching/ floor buffer with certain pads?? Really appreciate the input. Do you guys think applying too thin would do this???
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BS		#5	[url]	[-]
Posts: 499 04/20/10 09:44 AM	450 sq/ft per gallon? Max recommendation for application is 300 sq/ft gallon, and we rarely ever apply less than 200 and that's for a base coat & full coverage flake. Yes floor buffer with sanding screen. Sounds like it could be moisture. What knap roller did you backroll with? How vigorously did you backroll? Did you pull real thin on re application and did you backroll? Rolling that thin of an application can create bubbles depending on what knap roller was used. UV/PT1 will cloud up a little during backrolling, but has never caused us any concern or bad outcomes. It clears up as it cures and settles out.
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DCS Inc		#6	[url]	[-]
Posts: 2713 04/20/10 11:29 AM Moderaor in training	The white was air bubbles in the mix. Either introduced at time of mixing or rolling it too long with a too large of a nap roller. Way too thin of an application also. gene
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BS		#7	[url]	[-]
Posts: 500 04/20/10 11:36 AM	The white will disappear if the application isn't so thin. Happens on almost every job we do, but we haven't had a problem yet. Don't use anything longer than a 3/8" knap roller. We like 3/8" for most epoxy type applications.
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weldman		#8	[url]	[-]
Posts: 36 04/20/10 10:30 PM	we mixed 2-gallons total for 425 sq feet. Used 3/8 nap roller we got from rep. I thought we were applying pretty thick but.....maybe not huh. we back rolled gently.so......?? on reapplication i put on thick and did backroll and still bubbles??? Even mixed very ,very slow for 1-minute I am testing moisture in concret now to see if moisture is prob.. The humidity is high.....65-70% will this effect the product?? Even if moisture in floor wouldnt first coat create barrier?? Gonna plan on dehumidifier in basement,sand floor/bubbles and reapply. On re-ap still put on thick?? Thanks so much everyone for the input verry much appreciated.. any other suggestion welcome...what a nightmare.. .
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weldman		#9	[url]	[-]
Posts: 37 04/22/10 09:33 AM	Hey FYI... did moisture test. two locations in basement......both ..negative .
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DCS Inc		#10	[url]	[-]
Posts: 2716 04/22/10 03:07 PM Moderaor in training	Did you grind down to clean concrete? Thats the only way it gonna tell ya anything. gene ec-Indy
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weldman		#11	[url]	[-]
Posts: 38 04/23/10 10:29 AM	i had an area we acid etched for overlay. Think that was o.k??? or not good indicator. wanted to apply top coat but not sure because dont want same results.
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canu4see		#12	[url]	[-]
Posts: 263 05/15/10 08:05 AM	Are you sure it's bubbles and not trash of some kind, like a hair, dust, grain of sand, a leg from a bug that stuck in it, ect. After sanding or screening, vac and wipe w/ alcohol very well or the top coat will be full of trash. We also turn heating/cooling off so no dust circulates, and try to keep people from walking around upstairs for a few hours after application to keep dust from falling from ceiling.
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weldman		#13	[url]	[-]
Posts: 40 05/22/10 06:32 AM	didnt wipe with alcohol ...mopped,mopped,,mopped,,,...hand wipped last then let dry 24.....same results...bubbles ...bubble bubbles.. seemed like bubbles came after backroll....backroll 3/8 nap...slow...and kept wet edge.....seems where i pit on thick=less bubbles??? question....when applying....will squeege edges blend in pretty much without back rolling??? cause im thinking product was not warm enough. basement was 70 degrees....gonna try thin application this summer when heat wave comes in??? kind of discouraged about epoxy......got another job but afraid to seal with epoxy...and customer likes look of epoxy.........punt huh.
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weldman		#14	[url]	[-]
Posts: 43 05/29/10 05:25 AM	hey.... spoke with rep face to face on this one....he said probly from not defuzzing roller...i was calling them bubbles but i got educated when he showed me some bubbles on some sample boards. I would call my problem small pimples..... ( bubbles). Anyone ever get this on first epoxy job.. Gonna do another epox job soon. Will c ...
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CustomConcreteFloors	say bye bye to bubbles	#15	[url]	[-]
Posts: 120 07/16/10 09:36 AM	I used to get bubbles in every epoxy floor I did. I learned a trick that got rid of them forever. I do about 20 to 25 epoxy floors a year. High end clients. 2 COATS Coat one: - Mix no more than 1 liter at a time - Mix with stir stick - Never mix epoxy with a drill - Cut back with a splash of xylene or ISA99% (Isapropyl alcohol) (dont worry just splash it in. 5% of volume of sealer if you want to measure) - Dump out on floor. - Trowel the epoxy down with a drywall blade (blue steel blade) http://images.orgill.com/200x200/4813341.jpg - Go slowly, make sure if the floor is sucking the epoxy up that you back trowel until there are no dry spots. You are TIGHTLY troweling. You are going for a coverage rate of aprox 500 to 800 sq ft per gallon. - (I know a lot of you are going to hear from your suppliers that this is the wrong way to do it or that's too thin or never reduce epoxy etc... Believe what you want this works amazing for me and it's not too thin because you are coating with squeegee and back rolling the next day. Make sure you get back on it as soon as possible before your 24 hours is up. I blade coat in afternoon and go back next morning to be sure.) IMPORTANT: The only way you can screw this up is by not troweling it flat and leaving ridges (can always be sanded out if happens.) or by leaving dry spots. Notes: You'll usually find that at the end of each troweling batch you have a pile of garbage that you've brought along with you, this would have been left in your floor if you had been doing one thick coat. The reason this works so well is because your first coat is thin enoough to pop when air/vapor is going through it from the slab so no bubbles. Once it cures the slab is no longer breathing so you can then roll out your nice thick finish coat for a glass smooth floor. 220 Screening and waxing when done is the ultimate finish. I tend to have about 20 to 25 minutes of open time with each small batch I make. Don't worry about your trowel pattern showing through the next day after top coat. (for clear coats). It won't as long as you evenly wet out the floor on your blade coat. Hope this helps! JM
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weldman		#16	[url]	[-]
Posts: 50 07/21/10 07:05 AM	thanks for the info....will try your method...i did a job recently with pt-1.... took for ever to set. Seems im getting different results everytime i use epoxy. I actually just poured on and rolled it...did two soats on brick pattern. Overall...turned out great. Was in garage and sun hits it in afternoon when client opens door....beer time ya know....turned amber...guess this is what they mean by burning??? Rep told me if not in total sun all day didnt need uv-1...... well??? will try to get pics posted.....but still learning
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DCS Inc		#17	[url]	[-]
Posts: 2862 07/23/10 04:21 PM Moderaor in training	If sun hits it..... it will yellow. Even UV resistant epoxy will yellow if the sun beats the hell out of it. gene ec-Indy
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CaliCat		#18	[url]	[-]
Posts: 70 08/11/10 08:35 AM	the 100PT doesnt get bubbles like the 100UV did. Hit it with a heat gun and they will all go away.
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ecom	prime first, then coat	#19	[url]	[-]
Posts: 1057 10/07/10 08:48 AM www.elitecretemi.com	No matter how you decide to apply it, first prime the surface (VB-5 or PT4) at 200 sqft per gallon. Any true bubbles (vs. particles/lint/debris - 99% of the time guys will mistake micro particles for "tiny bubbles" - its not a bubble unless it has a visible clear dome of trapped air, look close) you will have will be on the first coat, when the free vapor in the concrete surface is being displace by your epoxy. The natural draw of vapor from a cold to warm and a wet to dry environment means that vapor is always coming out of a slab on grade. A slab is always a cooler, wetter place than the warmer, dryer air mass above it. So some outgassing on the first coat is to be expected and has less to do with the product or application - more to to do with amount of vapor in the floor and the difference in temperature and humidity between the slab and the air above it. So prime thin first, then sand, then your thicker top coat won't out gas because the floor is locked in at that point. I used to try to single coat everything, and it works 75% of the time. I couldn't afford the 25% of the time when I had recoat and double my material cost. Instead budget for enough to do 8 mil prime coat and 15-20 mil top coat, and the problem of outgassing / bubbling will no longer be an issue.
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DCS Inc		#20	[url]	[-]
Posts: 2998 10/11/10 04:44 PM Moderaor in training	I will add a little to Ray's post. Of course the common since stuff of no air movement, and a really clean, clean floor. I warm up the air and then let it cool when I start applying my epoxy. Cooler air is heavier and will "help push" the out-gassing back into the slab. If I can, I will turn on the heat the night before to bring up the surface temp of the slab. Then plug up the returns and do my final "wash with denatured alcohol with a micro fiber pad. Now I heard some distributors say to use isopropyl and I'm not too warm and fuzzy on that yet. Isopropyl alcohol has other additives to help with infection and my thoughts are they can leave a residue so that one is still one the table for me. (denatured is cheaper) If the humidity levels are high, I will rent a dehumidifier and dry out the air. 50% or less humidity level when you apply. If you have a high water content in the air, it will fall back on your pretty epoxy coating and cause a golf ball texture.......sucks big time. Now if you have done everything by the book and you still see the pesky bubbles forming, get your spikes back on with a "really good" sprayer loaded with the Hydra Stone Reducer and do a VERY light spray over the surface. Use a GOOD conical tip and pump it high for a good, light atomization. You wont find that in the book and I may get ++*%@ slapped for telling you but it does work. You may have to have a magic trowel with you to level out your spike marks as you walk out of the epoxy but that's a load faster than sanding the bubbles off later. I wont get into testing your slab for vapor emissions, that's another book. Thats it for now. gene ec-Indy
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